秋田预测市场 · Discord 审计

5分钟加密市场是否引入TWAP结算的争议

2026-07-13 · Polymarket · 101 条相关讨论

NooT 2026-07-13 06:23:25

I think polymarket saw my idea and started implementing the TWAP into the resolutions.

I think polymarket saw my idea and started implementing the TWAP into the resolutions.

NooT 2026-07-13 06:31:27

TWAP resolutions will change this.

TWAP resolutions will change this.

NooT 2026-07-13 06:32:15

Its gonna absolutley kill my 100M trades i have tracked lol

Its gonna absolutley kill my 100M trades i have tracked lol

NooT 2026-07-13 06:32:31

New market conditions means new data i need to take in for months

New market conditions means new data i need to take in for months

NooT 2026-07-13 06:32:42

TWAP resolutions change everything

TWAP resolutions change everything

NooT 2026-07-13 06:40:19

Twap resolutions will change how i trade

Twap resolutions will change how i trade

NooT 2026-07-13 06:40:31

Im stopping the strat when they get implimented

Im stopping the strat when they get implimented

oliver 2026-07-13 15:05:22

<@1361217824776786031> dont let them add twap

<@1361217824776786031> dont let them add twap

blunkoed 2026-07-13 15:12:15

Please no TWAP

Please no TWAP

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 15:18:02

I am still fairly certain anyone opposing TWAP either doesn't understand what they're saying or are just directly benefiting/are a manipulator

I am still fairly certain anyone opposing TWAP either doesn't understand what they're saying or are just directly benefiting/are a manipulator

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 15:18:53

- Volumes are at all time lows, - Volumes that do exist have large portion of pnl captured going to manipulators pockets - Kalshi volumes are way higher and they do TWAP - Even if it won't stop manipulation, it will certainly lower it substantially

- Volumes are at all time lows, - Volumes that do exist have large portion of pnl captured going to manipulators pockets - Kalshi volumes are way higher and they do TWAP - Even if it won't stop manipulation, it will certainly lower it substantially

blunkoed 2026-07-13 15:19:24

Poly crypto volume are not low because of manipulation

Poly crypto volume are not low because of manipulation

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 15:19:51

And TWAP will substantially lower the manipulation

And TWAP will substantially lower the manipulation

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 15:21:11

Alright, but I think you're missing the most important argument - let's think of pnl in terms of volume capture Do you make more money in A) current volumes with no TWAP B) 25% lower volumes with TWAP clearly we will all make more money in B. Like even with lower volumes. Because so much share of the pnl/volume goes to manipulators at the moment.

Alright, but I think you're missing the most important argument - let's think of pnl in terms of volume capture Do you make more money in A) current volumes with no TWAP B) 25% lower volumes with TWAP clearly we will all make more money in B. Like even with lower volumes. Because so much share of the pnl/volume goes to manipulators at the moment.

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 15:21:26

Bro it's all already fucked up

Bro it's all already fucked up

blunkoed 2026-07-13 15:21:37

Maybe you’re right. Let’s see <:pepecry:1480174599093096560>

Maybe you’re right. Let’s see <:pepecry:1480174599093096560>

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 15:21:50

I don't think we'll see, because I don't think they'll give TWAP a proper go

I don't think we'll see, because I don't think they'll give TWAP a proper go

blunkoed 2026-07-13 15:21:54

Never say never

Never say never

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 15:21:55

So it's just all going to go up in flames

So it's just all going to go up in flames

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 15:22:20

A/B testing for this is inappropriate. Running both TWAP and none TWAP at the same time is very silly as a 'test'

A/B testing for this is inappropriate. Running both TWAP and none TWAP at the same time is very silly as a 'test'

Inception 2026-07-13 15:24:14

Guys stop acting like ur feeding ur 5 kids from crypto up/down earnings, it's going to be ok if it breaks for a day or two for a better system 😭😭

Guys stop acting like ur feeding ur 5 kids from crypto up/down earnings, it's going to be ok if it breaks for a day or two for a better system 😭😭

blunkoed 2026-07-13 15:24:26

A day or two?

A day or two?

blunkoed 2026-07-13 15:24:29

On polymarket bro lol

On polymarket bro lol

oliver 2026-07-13 15:46:59

hypothetically if it didnt help manipulation would you still want it

hypothetically if it didnt help manipulation would you still want it

Feilix. 2026-07-13 15:56:18

My current strategy takes this kind of manipulation into account, but I personally oppose modifying it, as it would mean that all my strategies would need to be changed, and this manipulation may not necessarily succeed or fail.

My current strategy takes this kind of manipulation into account, but I personally oppose modifying it, as it would mean that all my strategies would need to be changed, and this manipulation may not necessarily succeed or fail.

Hundt 2026-07-13 16:07:15

IT will be monumental xD

IT will be monumental xD

Hundt 2026-07-13 16:08:04

But than i see manips making 100k per day. And I dont want this. So yeah.... Pls TWAP. Its worth a try

But than i see manips making 100k per day. And I dont want this. So yeah.... Pls TWAP. Its worth a try

blunkoed 2026-07-13 16:08:23

IT WON'T solve manip

IT WON'T solve manip

blunkoed 2026-07-13 16:08:27

let's see might be wrong

let's see might be wrong

Hundt 2026-07-13 16:09:42

We will see if TWAP ever comes

We will see if TWAP ever comes

Emily 2026-07-13 17:00:25

Sorry for interrupting, help me the noob. could you let me know what is TWAP?

Sorry for interrupting, help me the noob. could you let me know what is TWAP?

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 17:11:40

But they'd make way more money right? Like I don't get this argument Your money comes from market volumes If market volumes go up, you will make more If a lower % of current volumes go to manipulators You will also make more

But they'd make way more money right? Like I don't get this argument Your money comes from market volumes If market volumes go up, you will make more If a lower % of current volumes go to manipulators You will also make more

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 17:12:06

Who says it will solve it? Absolutely noone says that Not a single person

Who says it will solve it? Absolutely noone says that Not a single person

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 17:12:11

We are saying it will massively reduce it

We are saying it will massively reduce it

TeenyTinySharpe 2026-07-13 17:12:15

That's a vastly different statement

That's a vastly different statement

Feilix. 2026-07-13 17:13:24

It means that the strategy I originally wrote based on the last-second pricing logic is already profitable. I have already taken the manipulation risks into consideration. If I rashly modify the settlement method, it would mean I need to revise the strategy, so I naturally don't like this.

It means that the strategy I originally wrote based on the last-second pricing logic is already profitable. I have already taken the manipulation risks into consideration. If I rashly modify the settlement method, it would mean I need to revise the strategy, so I naturally don't like this.

blunkoed 2026-07-13 17:18:45

but why use twap and not another mechanism? that's what I do not get

but why use twap and not another mechanism? that's what I do not get

gura.png 2026-07-13 17:19:27

<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251> its polymarket devs

<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251> its polymarket devs

oliver 2026-07-13 17:26:31

i think most would agree manip is a big issue and needs solving like asap, and needed solving for the last 6 months but i would also guess minimal effort on PMs side has been done to actually do anything about it and in an ideal world nobody wants a twap, so it seems the issue is lack of urgency if anything, i dont buy that there isnt other practical solutions, at least in the shorter term

i think most would agree manip is a big issue and needs solving like asap, and needed solving for the last 6 months but i would also guess minimal effort on PMs side has been done to actually do anything about it and in an ideal world nobody wants a twap, so it seems the issue is lack of urgency if anything, i dont buy that there isnt other practical solutions, at least in the shorter term

Nemo 2026-07-13 17:29:07

If they use their perps market for 5 minute market resolution it will be so cheap to manipulate

If they use their perps market for 5 minute market resolution it will be so cheap to manipulate

gura.png 2026-07-13 17:30:22

True 6 months been duking on the same topic its almost like everyday ritual at this point. Nothing new happens same talking points.

True 6 months been duking on the same topic its almost like everyday ritual at this point. Nothing new happens same talking points.

oliver 2026-07-13 17:30:47

exactly they just dont really gaf, twap or not

exactly they just dont really gaf, twap or not

richlb 2026-07-13 17:32:44

So how big a TWAP are we planning for the 5m markets?

So how big a TWAP are we planning for the 5m markets?

richlb 2026-07-13 17:32:48

<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251>

<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251>

richlb 2026-07-13 17:32:59

300 seconds twap for 5min market is good

300 seconds twap for 5min market is good

gura.png 2026-07-13 17:33:10

It took them 6 months to just come up with an idea that is basically saying " we are gonna do what kalshi did "

It took them 6 months to just come up with an idea that is basically saying " we are gonna do what kalshi did "

oliver 2026-07-13 17:33:33

brutal

brutal

oliver 2026-07-13 17:33:57

i wonder if simple limits on taking massive nonsensical positions would be a start?

i wonder if simple limits on taking massive nonsensical positions would be a start?

richlb 2026-07-13 17:34:50

Have we tracked when manipulation happens within the 5-minute cycle? Let's use data—pull the timing of flip reversals over the past six months.

Have we tracked when manipulation happens within the 5-minute cycle? Let's use data—pull the timing of flip reversals over the past six months.

richlb 2026-07-13 17:36:29

If TWAP isn't one minute or longer, I don't see much point in it. <a:thinking:1479896605862920222>

If TWAP isn't one minute or longer, I don't see much point in it. <a:thinking:1479896605862920222>

tehnoobkiddo 2026-07-13 17:36:34

https://arxiv.org/html/2606.31675v1#S7

https://arxiv.org/html/2606.31675v1#S7

tehnoobkiddo 2026-07-13 17:36:50

but yes it happens in the last 30s obviously

but yes it happens in the last 30s obviously

richlb 2026-07-13 17:41:10

The data he picked might only cover the last month or two—because before three months ago, the "safety time" in my code was remaining time < 20 (now it's < 0<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251> ).

The data he picked might only cover the last month or two—because before three months ago, the "safety time" in my code was remaining time < 20 (now it's < 0<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251> ).

richlb 2026-07-13 17:43:17

Reversals used to hit around 30–45 seconds before market close. Now they got good at it, so they pushed it later(it's automated now, it used to be manual.)

Reversals used to hit around 30–45 seconds before market close. Now they got good at it, so they pushed it later(it's automated now, it used to be manual.)

richlb 2026-07-13 17:45:13

This shows a 30-second TWAP doesn't fix anything—especially since the effective time of TWAP is even smaller. Even one minute TWAP doesn't solve it imo.

This shows a 30-second TWAP doesn't fix anything—especially since the effective time of TWAP is even smaller. Even one minute TWAP doesn't solve it imo.

oliver 2026-07-13 17:45:29

what do you think they should do for manip?

what do you think they should do for manip?

richlb 2026-07-13 17:46:59

just flip after TWAP window start and keep price for a while, nothing's changed.

just flip after TWAP window start and keep price for a while, nothing's changed.

WildRage 2026-07-13 17:47:27

How does anyone even trade the crypto 5m options during low volatility, isn't every spot movement not just manipulation then?

How does anyone even trade the crypto 5m options during low volatility, isn't every spot movement not just manipulation then?

tehnoobkiddo 2026-07-13 17:47:39

the issue's never been about time but more cross-venue price permanence

the issue's never been about time but more cross-venue price permanence

richlb 2026-07-13 17:47:40

now they start 5-10 seconds before market end and keep price for 10 seconds

now they start 5-10 seconds before market end and keep price for 10 seconds

tehnoobkiddo 2026-07-13 17:47:55

manipulation's only possible bc binance is heavily weighted and low vol means easier manipulation

manipulation's only possible bc binance is heavily weighted and low vol means easier manipulation

richlb 2026-07-13 17:48:06

after 30s TWAP thety start 30s before marke end and keep price for 15 seconds

after 30s TWAP thety start 30s before marke end and keep price for 15 seconds

richlb 2026-07-13 17:48:19

<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251> I didn't see anything changed for them

<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251> I didn't see anything changed for them

oliver 2026-07-13 17:48:34

for reducing it i meant, if not twap

for reducing it i meant, if not twap

tehnoobkiddo 2026-07-13 17:48:44

keeping price for a while is more risky though

keeping price for a while is more risky though

tehnoobkiddo 2026-07-13 17:49:03

because then you incur the risk of getting arb'd back

because then you incur the risk of getting arb'd back

richlb 2026-07-13 17:49:33

No difference—getting picked off only comes from opponents, not the market.

No difference—getting picked off only comes from opponents, not the market.

egolo 2026-07-13 17:50:05

Holy ****, maybe this contributes to my bad results over the last months

Holy ****, maybe this contributes to my bad results over the last months

richlb 2026-07-13 17:50:06

In low-vol periods, nobody in the market is going to move your price.

In low-vol periods, nobody in the market is going to move your price.

richlb 2026-07-13 17:50:52

Ban their accounts, freeze their assets, require proof of income and KYC—just like Kalshi.

Ban their accounts, freeze their assets, require proof of income and KYC—just like Kalshi.

Ban 2026-07-13 17:51:17

rich must be bored of making too much money, he's talking more now

rich must be bored of making too much money, he's talking more now

Ban 2026-07-13 17:51:19

<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251>

<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251>

gura.png 2026-07-13 17:51:51

which polymarket international an unregulated firm don't wanna do since people can't sue them for any wrong doing and will deter away those high rollers....

which polymarket international an unregulated firm don't wanna do since people can't sue them for any wrong doing and will deter away those high rollers....

richlb 2026-07-13 17:52:15

1. start 5-10 seconds before market end and keep price for 10 seconds 2. after 30s TWAP they start 30s before market end and keep price for 15 seconds Can a 30s TWAP actually fix manipulation? <a:thinking:1479896605862920222>

1. start 5-10 seconds before market end and keep price for 10 seconds 2. after 30s TWAP they start 30s before market end and keep price for 15 seconds Can a 30s TWAP actually fix manipulation? <a:thinking:1479896605862920222>

tehnoobkiddo 2026-07-13 17:54:32

how do you prove they're a manipulator? ahah

how do you prove they're a manipulator? ahah

oliver 2026-07-13 17:55:12

if they can track the accounts that are tied together, rate limiting how much the connected accounts can strip seems to make sense to me

if they can track the accounts that are tied together, rate limiting how much the connected accounts can strip seems to make sense to me

oliver 2026-07-13 17:55:20

idk how possible that is tho

idk how possible that is tho

tehnoobkiddo 2026-07-13 17:55:59

i disagree with the reasoning though, i'm not saying it's the solution but we need to make it less possible to manipulate

i disagree with the reasoning though, i'm not saying it's the solution but we need to make it less possible to manipulate

gura.png 2026-07-13 17:56:33

hmm we can also think from the perspective that poly have not done anything for quite some time and if they finally did do twap and it fails to yield them result they want they will atleast be inclined to do something else instead of white washing us with with 50-50 fantasy...

hmm we can also think from the perspective that poly have not done anything for quite some time and if they finally did do twap and it fails to yield them result they want they will atleast be inclined to do something else instead of white washing us with with 50-50 fantasy...

oliver 2026-07-13 17:57:24

if they cant build their suspicious ass position then they wont bother moving it

if they cant build their suspicious ass position then they wont bother moving it

richlb 2026-07-13 17:57:48

I don't think 30s TWAP makes manipulation any harder—wait and see. Bro J will keep flipping market after market, and then we'll bump TWAP to 300s.

I don't think 30s TWAP makes manipulation any harder—wait and see. Bro J will keep flipping market after market, and then we'll bump TWAP to 300s.

richlb 2026-07-13 17:58:25

Or we might as well just kill the 5m markets.

Or we might as well just kill the 5m markets.

richlb 2026-07-13 18:02:09

<a:thinking:1479896605862920222>Probably just 50/50 on Kalshi—definitely not manipulation since it's 60s twap + 15min + KYC

<a:thinking:1479896605862920222>Probably just 50/50 on Kalshi—definitely not manipulation since it's 60s twap + 15min + KYC

oliver 2026-07-13 18:03:47

also one thing i dont get why not just trade kalshi then if you want less manip/twap while they figure iit out

also one thing i dont get why not just trade kalshi then if you want less manip/twap while they figure iit out

Michael Markout 2026-07-13 18:05:46

removing 5m markets sounds like a good idea, they would never do it though

removing 5m markets sounds like a good idea, they would never do it though

gura.png 2026-07-13 18:06:57

<@339922048266534925> might wanna have a word with you on removing 5 minutes market

<@339922048266534925> might wanna have a word with you on removing 5 minutes market

WildRage 2026-07-13 18:11:35

Couldn't they just completely solve this manipulation problem by just settling against the avg price instead of final tick

Couldn't they just completely solve this manipulation problem by just settling against the avg price instead of final tick

reikano 2026-07-13 18:12:50

only way this could work

only way this could work

Hundt 2026-07-13 18:13:51

even if you believe in "manipulating" look at it as random noise in whatever strategy you're doing. It will end 50/50 up or down so manipulating will be in your favor or not 50% of the time.

even if you believe in "manipulating" look at it as random noise in whatever strategy you're doing. It will end 50/50 up or down so manipulating will be in your favor or not 50% of the time.

oliver 2026-07-13 18:15:59

id be more pro twap if they had tried like anything else first but i really dont think they have

id be more pro twap if they had tried like anything else first but i really dont think they have

oliver 2026-07-13 18:18:55

increase take delay, reduce take fee, track and ban or throttle manip adjacent or suspected accounts, ez

increase take delay, reduce take fee, track and ban or throttle manip adjacent or suspected accounts, ez

gura.png 2026-07-13 18:21:14

I think chainlink was the first thing they tried <:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251>

I think chainlink was the first thing they tried <:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251>

oliver 2026-07-13 18:22:47

1 second twap<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251>

1 second twap<:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251>

qiuclone 2026-07-13 18:23:51

the manip in the last few days was heavy damn

the manip in the last few days was heavy damn

The Dude 2026-07-13 18:24:33

This guy built everything and now it just doesn't break <:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251>

This guy built everything and now it just doesn't break <:Bidensmile:1040247925420339251>